Unique Feminine Strengths for Business

We discuss psychological gender roles, femininity, and the unique feminine strengths for business.

Empathy Map https://gamestorming.com/update-to-the-empathy-map/

As always, please give us your questions and stories: [email protected]

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Christy Mori (00:09):

Welcome to Gears. Action, Growth, shifting business culture, one conversation at a time. My name is Christy Mori and I’m. Joining Dr. Josephine Palermo superpower is to create business cultures that transform organisations team by team. Today, we’ll be chatting about unique feminine traits, how we have them in business. Hope you get value for it.

Christy Mori (00:34):

Hey morning, Jo. It’s good to hear your voice this morning. We haven’t chatted for a while in this medium. Hey,

Dr. Josephine Palermo (00:42):

We haven’t, we haven’t, it’s been, it’s been great to talk to some other people, but it’s always lovely to get back and talk to you, Christy. So you’re my favorite.

Christy Mori (00:54):

It’s it’s it’s true. It’s true. This podcast really is I guess it’s our COVID child in a way. It’s our COVID child. So yeah, I definitely have a fondness for this medium as well with the, so we have been away from recording for a while, and this is actually, this was actually planned to celebrate women’s month, last month and yeah, but how have you been, have you been lately? All right,

Intro: A Road Trip to Tasmania

Dr. Josephine Palermo (01:24):

Christy on, on the main. So as you know, I was in beautiful Tasmania after Easter. And if anybody wants to go just for a bit of a, a break and walk in nature, Tasmania is just stunning. So my partner and I, we went on a road trip, but unfortunately the second last day of the trip I’ve fell at a, at a a blowhole. So by the ocean on some rocks and I fell right onto my elbow and fractured my elbow in lots of places was an open fracture. So lots of drama, lots of blood. And my partner had to drive me on windy roads to small, very small community health center. And then they sent me to Launceston General hospital and I had to have surgery. And so I ended up, I ended up staying in Tazzy for a little bit longer than I’d planned.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (02:14):

I had to send him back on the spirit of Tasmania because we had brought our car over. So he was not very happy on that boat trip back to Melbourne. And then I flew back about 24 hours later. So it was a bit of a drama, and then I’ve ended up in sort of recovery and doing some exercises with my elbow, but it’s three weeks in and, and it’s coming good. And my, my aim is to get the strength back and also to get the flexibility back. But it’s it was a very unexpected occurrence. And it’s one of those things where you sort of, you know, you have all these plans, you know, I had planned to have a little bit of a break and then get back to work in you know, with my usual 200 back into work. And I just couldn’t, I had to take the time to heal and get over the surgery and just, you know, and, and lots of people helped me, which is great. I had lots of support around me, but yeah, it did not go to plan Christy.

Christy Mori (03:15):

Yeah. Oh my gosh. And just hearing about blood, I don’t know why I didn’t even think there was no bleeding. Do you have a good pain threshold?

Dr. Josephine Palermo (03:25):

Think I do. What I learned is that I probably have quite a high pain tolerance because even the nurses were a bit surprised. And so I think I, I probably am you know, lucky to have that, because I think it’s a very, that that is a very kind of internal sensitivity that that some people have, and I don’t have that. So I think I can put up with a lot. And the other thing I learned is that my partner was really happy that I was a bit of a trooper because he’s not good at sort of being perhaps the more nurturing nurse. He was worried that I would be really needy and he wouldn’t be up for the tasks. So it’s interesting what you learn.

Christy Mori (04:10):

Wow. Yeah, I think it’s interesting. Cause we’re talking, we’re going to be talking about feminine traits, especially but it would be interesting if we talked about masculine traits with someone as well in the future.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (04:22):

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Christy Mori (04:26):

Yeah. Cause I sort of can understand that in a sense from Spiro’s point of view. Yeah.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (04:31):

Yeah. Well, we were worried. I mean, sorry, I wasn’t worried about that, but it was interesting cause he was worried about that. And so, because he knows that’s not a strength that he has. So he was worried about letting me down, but look, he didn’t let me down. He looked after me and was very supportive as was, you know, other family members and people I work with as well. Everybody’s been great. And and now I’m on the main, so that’s, that’s fantastic. But yeah. So all good Christy and Christy, you’ve got, you’ve just had something you happen. So I heard you had have just adopted a cat.

Intro: A Ragdoll Cat Named Finn

Christy Mori (05:07):

Yes. Yeah. My husband and I adopted a senior cat he’s 13 years old. So he’s actually older than us in human years. He seeks out. So yeah. And he’s meowing in the background because he wants to be out here, but I didn’t want him to be tangled up in the cords or anything. He’s very, he’s a ragdoll. Do you know what that is, Jo?

Dr. Josephine Palermo (05:31):

No, I’m not a cat person. So you have to explain it to cats.

Christy Mori (05:35):

You do have an allergy, so I’m an animal person, but I’m more of a dog person. My husband loves cats and we basically saw, you know, heard about the pup overpopulation in Melbourne with captain rabbits. Actually it’s a horrible situation. So we were not sure, but I thought, you know, a senior cat would be harder to adopt out. So I just said, can we kind of, can we go in that direction? So we were exploring lots of different now. We’re not saying at all, we’re just like one, you know, it’s overwhelming because it’s like, oh my gosh, there’s so many as well. And you just feel like is one going to help? But we just said, let’s just go for it with one. And it’s like this week. Yeah. So a ragdoll is beautiful obviously. And that’s why people get them, but their temperament is like a dog.

Christy Mori (06:26):

Oh. So they follow you everywhere. So it’s not like typical cat where that’s why he’s crying because he’s like, I want to be out here, but I know that I’m going to be distracted and he’s, you know, he might get like into the Mike or something and then we’re going to have to start over. So yeah, he has a little cat room and that’s where he’s mailing from. It’s just close to the study. Cause I don’t have a door to the study. So that’s why, if anyone’s concerned about some animal welfare, it’s not that he’s abused or anything. He’s just, can you pronounce his name? Is it Findik? Yeah. And we looked it up. Yeah. Good memory. It’s so funny. So we just call him Fin. Cause it just sounds funny, but I looked it up and I thought it was Icelandic or something, but it means hazelnut and that’s the coloring of him.

Christy Mori (07:17):

So in which, in which in Turkish, apparently I just Googled it. Yeah. He was he had a Turkish family wonder he, someone, they said an elderly person had to give him up because the elderly person themselves, it’s very, very sad. Yeah. Cause at first yeah, they had a hard time adopting him out because usually like his breed would fly off the radar. Like people would be in want his age and he has a lot of medical conditions right now. He has like kidney mild kidney disease. He has spondylosis arthritis and he has a bit of dental disease that we had to clean up. So it has been five days, but yeah, I’m like a complete crazy cat person. Well, I mean I’m a thin person I think. Yeah. So yeah,

Dr. Josephine Palermo (08:09):

He is beautiful. It’s absolutely

Christy Mori (08:10):

Like having like a child sort of like in a sort of yeah. In a strange sense. Yeah. So I could totally understand why people like get crazy over their pets, you know? Yeah. So it is really exciting. It is really exciting. So, but his, his meowing is making a cameo into our podcast. Fabulous.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (08:33):

All right. Well, we will embrace that.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (08:35):

So that’s all good. Yes. Yes.

Christy Mori (08:37):

And then we love to hear from listeners, although we’re a business podcast, if you have pets and they distract you from doing your work, please let us know.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (08:47):

I think I’ve been on a lot of either Microsoft teams or zoom sessions where people kind of, you know, get that suddenly their cattle, their dog sort of in the screen. I think it’s fabulous. It’s part of us bringing our whole selves to work, which is a theme that kind of, I think runs through, you know, sort of my a lot of my life. And I think that that’s wonderful and, and it gives the whole new dimension to what we know about people and what we know about them in terms of like, like I guess their strengths and what they can, what they can manage in their lives. So yeah. That’s true.

Christy Mori (09:21):

Yeah. That’s true. That’s great. Yes. Okay. Vinnie, do you hear that welcome? Yeah, he wants to be part of the conversation. He’s nonstop Meowing. Anyways, we want us, we wanted to celebrate women’s month last month. So we’re going to wrap up that celebration today about, so we’re going to explore some feminine traits that are needed and useful and business. So today Josephine and I, we’re going to be discussing particularly feminine traits of creating connection, nurturing, and empathy. And we also just want to clarify that we value masculine traits as well and respect men. And this isn’t about pitting genders against one another, but just specifically highlighting some feminine traits as we’re both women. And we know the positivity that they have that are not traditionally associated with business sometimes. And we miss that. So that’s why we want to bring a highlight to this. So yeah, let’s start off with the social element of women as great connectors show. So you’re a really great connector just because of your personality and just your openness. Not every woman is like you either Jo, cause I think you’re a specific person as well because you know, you always make people feel really good and you know, you include people a lot, so yeah. But this element of being great connectors show how in business, like you could probably list how important that is.

The Idea of Connection

Dr. Josephine Palermo (10:48):

Yeah, it is. Thanks Christy. And thank you. I, I, you know, I, I do have a passion for connecting people that is, you know, bringing communities together as one of my sort of purpose sort of statements. One of my it’s always, always part of my vision. But women in particular tend to be great connectors because when we go back to sort of, I guess our early socialization and the way in which we treat sort of boys and girls and we do treat them differently, even from babies. And a lot of the research says this, you know, we, for example, we will hold a baby in a particular way, whether it’s a boy or a girl, we might be we might sort of demonstrate more kind of nurturing or a softer, gentle behaviors towards a a female infant versus a male infant.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (11:43):

Whereas the male infant people you know, they’ll usually be more rough and tumble from say the the father figure in that person’s life and that infant’s life. We, we, we sort of even the way we hold hold infants is different depending on whether they’re males and females and that’s it. So that really kind of and again, from there there’s so many occurrences in sort of our social upbringing. That actually means that, that what we reinforce for girls or infants, female infants and girls, is this idea of connection. And the idea of connection is also reinforced by I guess an idea that, that when, when we see ourselves as part of our environment, we then consider connection more. And so for example, I might walk into an organization and I don’t see myself as necessarily separate to the environment.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (12:48):

I, I, if I see myself as connected to the environment, what I’m going to be prioritizing is relationships with others. I’m going to be looking for ways in which those relationships are being enhanced or nurtured. I’m also going to be looking at not only the, the relationships of the people I see around me, but the relationships of their relationships. So there’s a kind of, you know, almost like a spider web out, I’m going to be looking at my suppliers in that way as a word. So I’m going to be looking at, at everyone who is a stakeholder around me, in my business as a potential relationship. And I will make decisions with that with while prioritizing that. So, so women, not all women, like you say, not all women are the same. And actually we need to keep purposing that, but that socialization of women in Western countries tells us that they will often be more they will often have a predisposition in a way or preference towards considering relationships as a priority or considering connections.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (13:58):

And so, for example so for example, even, even like my teenage niece she will consider all of the relationships of, of her friendship network around her when making a decision for example, and she’s going to be more, there’s going to be more of a preference for her to do that because of her socialization. And, and there’s also I really like a philosopher called [Rene] Decartes, who in the 1960s talked about this and his view of actually she wrote a book about the duality of human nature. And his view was that, you know  feminine traits, in other words, feminine strengths come from our socialization into a more connected sort of human being. And, and the challenge for  for women then is to learn some of characteristics related to differentiating themselves in other words, because they kind of, you know, they’re socialized into necessarily seeing themselves as connected in their environment.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (15:03):

They might also need to work on, well, how do I differentiate myself? How do I, you know, how do I speak up? How do I how do I sort of jump into those leadership shoes and really become a leader who is differentiated from others? How do I prioritize my achievements over, for example, the achievements of my family and other people around me and my team. So some of those challenges can come from this preference for connection, and it can also, it can produce challenges, but it can also be an incredible strength because the way in which we, we know almost like the new economy the way in which we experienced that is through connection. So for example, marketers know that they know that, you know, people will spend a dollar, a marketing dollar because their friend or trusted person has recommended a brand,

Dr. Josephine Palermo (16:03):

Right? Yes.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (16:06):

And people will, will more like I’m more likely to trust a brand where they see that brand connecting with, for example, the causes that they believe in. So, again, it’s this we’re looking for, we’re looking for the things in our environment that reinforce our idea of connection, and also even the whole move towards the digital landscape, agile ways of working modern ways of working is about connecting in with more people so that we get ideas that, that are more representative of you know, kind of diversity that we need to deal with so that we can then innovate. So innovation very much requires that you start and let we start with connection and you leverage connection so that you, you, you bring all of the voices into a room before you decide what the priorities are. Otherwise you might be left on the shelf.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (17:02):

For example, you might be, you might not see an opportunity coming and you, and it might pass you by. So, and we know a lot of businesses where we sort of that’s been the case where they haven’t leveraged the, the really the multiple voices, the diverse voices that they could have in their stakeholder mix. And so they’ve gone with a priority and in the end, you know, that company becomes really quite redundant. And, and even, you know, even for example, you can think of, for example, the difference between eBay and Amazon. I mean, Amazon is this incredible innovative organization that it just keeps building on, on their innovations because they, they have an ear to their customer. They, the, they actually ideating on what their customers might need. And they produce that even before their customers know they need it.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (17:57):

Whereas I think eBay had that opportunity in the nineties. They were the, really, the only sort of, sort of digital market place, but they didn’t use that opportunity that they had buy, but, you know, through their market share to then growth, they did change that along their journey. And I think that there that the recent eBay history is, or just got something for me, they actually [inaudible] has changed that. So, yeah. So, so what, what was we need to think about in business is the feminine strength around connection. And as we say, not all women will be great connectors, and you will have some men who are great connectors, but the strength they bring comes from a feminine kind of characteristic. It comes from psychological femininity because psychological femininity is our ability to you know, it’s characterized by things like connection, nurturing, empathy sort of prioritization on relationships.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (19:01):

It’s actually characterized by those things. And when we measure, for example, psychological femininity and psychological femininity can be a trait of men and women. But what we’re seeing in particularly organizations, organizations, maybe maybe more traditional old fashioned organizations tend to be structured around more masculine strengths. So, so psychological masculinity than feminine strength. So they tend to be structured around how people can differentiate themselves from their environment, how they can set themselves apart from their environment. So think of, for example, the trait competition or the, it could be a strength competition in a very competitive environment. You may miss opportunities for that connection. So that is, that is that, that that’s something that you have to watch. And I’ll give you an example. So for example even Google organization, huge market share very innovative organization, you know, thousands, tens of thousands of staff.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (20:10):

They there’s, some of the staff at Google have formed a minority union in the, I think it’s just in the states, but I’m not sure. But they’ve formed a minority union. So it’s about 800 staff have come together collectively to form a connection with each other, to in a way advocate for Google to make decisions that are in line with what they say is not creating evil in the world. But, but what that really means is, is Google. And it is Google, you know, standing up to its promise of being ethical, being, but about the causes that their staff care about. So they actually come together and 800 staff is not you know, the majority of all staff at Google, but they, they end up having quite a lot of power through their connection because 800 staff can actually go on the internet, can talk to other people, can talk to their friends and family. When you think about the amount of people that 800 staff can touch you know, in a digital space, it’s actually, you end up with hundreds of thousands of people. So, so through connection through this understanding of wanting to wanting to kind of keep my organization really valuing the things I value these people have come together. So th that, that’s an example of how connection can be a real strength, even though it’s not, you don’t have to connect to everybody for connection to be a strength.

Christy Mori (21:48):

Yeah. so from connection though, to really foster connection, the next trait we would be talking about is nurturing. So can you help us sort of dive into the nurturing aspects? So because to have connections with people, we would have to nurture the relationships.

Nurturing Relationships for Business

Dr. Josephine Palermo (22:08):

Yes, exactly. Absolutely. Absolutely. And nurturing is, it comes from that, that those behaviors that really show someone that you care for them, and that you have a, in some ways, a vested interest in, in how successful they are. And that, that, and care for example, became a really key value last year during COVID. And, and, and I’m sure even, you know, we’re lucky in Australia that we sort of think of ourselves as kind of being post COVID, but that’s not the case in other countries, but care. It was one of those differentiators and care is one of those things that is very crucial to trust. And so if you want to develop a high trust environment in your workplace and your business, you need to actually show through your actions through your words that you’re caring for. And you’re, you’re Bennett, you’re caring for your staff and that your you’re interested in providing benefits for your staff.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (23:08):

And we’ve seen this shift, you know, I think I go to 19th century, early 20th century. It was really the, the church or the government that had the responsibility for caring for people. And more and more it’s become organizations. You know, organizations provide the, the structure for people to live their lives. They provide benefits. They provide, you know, in, in the U S they provide healthcare even. So there’s a misunderstanding that if I want to develop trust in my workforce, I really need to show them that I have their success in my heart in a way. And I’m deliberately talking about heart. You know, we often don’t think about heart as being, you know, I guess, relevant in business, but care is actually the way in which people connect at a real deep level. So if I care, I really care about my customers, for example, and I really am wanting to help them succeed, help them achieve their dreams.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (24:18):

For example, I’ll show that through my behavior and I need to show that through my words. I think we’ve got to a stage where it’s okay in business to say, I really care about you. I care about what you think. I care about what you what your opinion is. And I care about making sure that you’re safe, that your wellbeing is you know, optimized that your also getting a lot of meaning from work, from the work that you’re doing and that you feel like you’re achieving all of those things lead to a high trust environment. And this is a good example of, of what you don’t do. If you want to build a high trusting environment through showing nurturing. I had someone whose and I won’t name who they work for, but they said, oh, my CEO, what he likes to do is to you know, kind of trick trip people up so that you know, because he, he drives them hard and he really wants to make sure that they’re performing.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (25:24):

So what he does is he tests them. He like, for example, he’ll say, oh, did that inventory come in the other day and what he’s, he knows that that inventory came in, but what he’s doing is testing that person to make sure that they’re doing their job properly. That is what you don’t do. If you want to build a high trust environment, gentlemen. Yes, yes. It is no ounce of care and nurturing in that behavior. The better behavior would be to just be transparent, ask a question. And if that person hasn’t checked to have a conversation, which goes to, you know, what it’s really important to the success of our business and your role that you kind of stay on top of these things what’s going on for you that maybe you missed that yesterday. That is a caring response. That is actually something which shows that person that you’re interested in developing, developing their capability, that you’re not, you’re not going to blame them when something goes wrong, you’re interested in helping them learn and succeed.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (26:34):

And it’s a much more caring response because you’re actually asking them to open up about maybe something that’s happening to them internally or personally, et cetera. And so for you did that kind of level of openness and transparency that the CEO and the business manager themselves needs to show that they need to talk about the way in which they care for others. They need to talk about the way in which that they’re nurturing others. And, and, and, you know, nurturing is it’s about understanding that the wellbeing of other people is, is a business priority. It’s actually saying, I care about you and the way you feel and think is important. So there’s that level of care is what we see in organizations that have, for example, higher levels of trust and loyalty in employees and employees tend to stay in the organization. And even if you have high turnover, because some industries just have high turnover because of the nature of the industry, that person will leave and, and seeing that organizations praises, and that’s what you want because every employee that leaves you is then a potential customer.

Christy Mori (27:48):

Yeah, that’s good, Jo, that’s really, really good point. But to have this level of care, I think people need empathy. Yes. Like, so care, like genuine care, I think is very hard to fake. Like when I, you know, everybody knows it, everybody knows when somebody cares for them. And everybody also knows when someone is faking the care. So how do we, you know, so I think now empathy is our last sort of topic here, but how does empathy play into all these things we’ve talked about?

Dr. Josephine Palermo (28:24):

Yeah. So empathy empathy

Dr. Josephine Palermo (28:27):

Is the ability to notice and then to reflect back. So these are things you can learn to do. So, you know, to your point, you’re right. I mean, you know, you can’t fake it until you make it on any odd things like nurturance, nurturance is something you’ve really got to think about. You’ve got to sort of shift your mindset to saying this is important. And it’s the mindset of, you know, being being connected to people it’s saying, you know, my, my, I can’t succeed unless we all succeed. That’s what connection is about. And nurturing as part of that. But empathy is actually something that you can learn, which is great. Right? So we, we don’t have to we don’t have to kind of think about this in a kind of intangible way. And I’ll give you, I’ll give you are a great tool.

The Empathy Map

Dr. Josephine Palermo (29:16):

So there is actually, I might put a link to this tool in the show notes, there’s a tool called an empathy map that you can use. And what this empathy map does is it actually highlights the kinds of questions you could ask someone so that you are noticing, and you are then reflecting back to them in a way that shows other people that you with them. And again, you need to do that. If you’re going to create a high trust environment in your business, you need to be worried about these because you cannot create a high trust environment unless you do this. So, so one of the key things around empathizing is notice, what is that person saying? What are they seeing? What are they hearing and what are they doing? So you notice four things about that person. What are they saying?

Dr. Josephine Palermo (30:18):

What are they seeing? What are they hearing and what are they doing? And you try to put yourself in their shoes when you answer those questions. And you could, you don’t know the answers to those questions. You could ask someone. So when this happens, what do you see? Or, you know, when I, when I behave in that way what, what do you do? Or when I was telling you that when I was giving you those instructions yesterday, what did you hear? Just replay that back to me, these are things you can ask people. It gives you an understanding of how they think, and that’s what empathy is, is kind of bringing yourself back into the, that those people bringing yourself into there space. Yeah. So that you understand. And then, and then the other thing about reflecting back is that will help you understand what they need. So so it may be that then I can reflect back. Oh, okay. So when I gave you those instructions, you heard ABC. In fact in fact, I wasn’t aware that, that you would interpret it that way. How could I do it better next time so that my intention is clearer for you?

Christy Mori (31:48):

So asking the right kind of questions as well, and being self-aware just as friends with questions. Yeah.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (31:56):

And the, what the empathy template or empathy map does, it also helps you to reflect on these things for your staff. You could do an empathy map on your key customers. You could do an empathy map on your stakeholders, or if you have a sub, for example, if you have a supplier that isn’t working out, but you, you know, you kind of need them to, to get, you know, to kind of get on board and, and improve their, their sort of relationship with you or their, their performance with you. Then you could do an empathy map with your supplier as well, because we often forget about suppliers. Suppliers is so important to business. They are so important to our supply chain. You, if you have a supplier that, that doesn’t do what they say they were going to do or doesn’t keep their promises with when they’re dealing with your customers, that can really be the end of business.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (32:52):

So your suppliers are so important. So, so you can actually do an empathy map, exercise. And, and again, you don’t have to guess this, if you don’t know, it means you don’t know. So you ask a question and people love to talk about themselves, Christy, this is my little secret to talk about them. We’re all nurses assistance. Yeah. They’ll end when, so when I ask a question and you talk about yourself, that increases your trust in me. I didn’t even have to say anything. If I ask you questions that helps you to share something about you that increases your trust in me. So, you know, that’s gold.

Christy Mori (33:42):

Yeah. I think, but natural conversation also is that we’re also sharing as well. So, you know, not just asking the questions, but we’re, it’s like both in a sense like there, so the other person doesn’t feel that they’re just being vulnerable and sharing everything you were just taking. Yeah. So, yeah,

Dr. Josephine Palermo (34:03):

But having said that, Christy, when you, for example, if you meet strangers, let’s say you’re at a business, networking, breakfast or lunch, it’s everyone kind of always has a bit of anxiety about those. If you, if you just ask people, if you go, if you’ve never, we’ve done research on this, we can, if it’s actually evidence-based, if you go to someone and you just ask them questions about themselves and get them talking, even if you haven’t shared anything about yourself, if you just then walk away, they will have a positive impression of you.

Christy Mori (34:37):

Yeah. Yeah. I believe that for sure. Yeah. I was the crazy person this week, you know, I was meeting up with a, like an organization related for hire spaces. Yeah. And since I had just gotten Finn, I was like tying everything to Finn. I I’m sure. They thought I was insane, but I was like, okay. Call, call us. Okay. See you. I was like, you, like, I was like, do you like cats? Do you like animals? It’s like, oh right. Marketing, digital marketing. Yeah. So that’s kind of like, yeah, my experience this way, but they, they, they’re going to call us. I’m sure.

Dr. Josephine Palermo (35:20):

You know what Christy, like, that’s the thing you’ve just had this, you know, beautiful kind of you know, soul of a cat come into your life. Who’s got such a, probably, you know, when you think about it for a story, you know, the animal has a story as well. But if you, if you’re able to share that story with someone, if they’re really interested in that and you they get, you get a chance to tell your story, you’re you automatically feel warm, warm, positive. And the, and you’re starting to develop trust with people you’re talking to. So yeah, we often think we have to talk, but the trick is to listen. And the thing with empathy too, it’s about really noticing and listening.

Christy Mori (36:08):

Yeah. That’s good. Really noticing and listening. I think we’re going to have to wrap up there. So, but we definitely appreciate everybody’s feedback and questions. You may have hope this topic was insightful and enjoyable to listen to. And obviously please send us any questions and comments at [email protected] And specifically if you’re women or men who are interested in these aspects

Christy Mori (36:33):

That we spoke about give us, give us an email. We’d like to hear it. We hope you have a great week and hopefully we will see you or join next time or join us next time. I can’t even speak

Christy Mori (36:46):

Anyways.

Christy Mori (36:48):

Yeah. We’re looking forward to next week. So you guys join us then join thing. He’s got me out. I have to meet myself actually. Yeah. I know my one ear is like, I can’t not block him out. So I think that’s why I’m like incoherent. Hopefully, hopefully everybody thinks that

Dr. Josephine Palermo (37:10):

All good Christy. All right. So, so.

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